tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488114684124200470.post7591074021975666381..comments2023-07-15T12:10:42.850+01:00Comments on Alaric's Lair: More about NHS WICsAlaric Adairhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05574881443377654048noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488114684124200470.post-44895876803606712432011-11-25T03:54:39.258+00:002011-11-25T03:54:39.258+00:00Let's just say the costs I've seen charged...Let's just say the costs I've seen charged to the Primary Care Trusts by out of hours services and A&E Departments in actual billing are rather different. The case becomes much worse for A&E Departments when a PFI Hospital is involved. <br /><br />It would be interesting to see the Notts figures properly challenged by a forensic accountant with access to actual data. For example it is not unusual an GP providing contract out of hours cover to be paid in excess of £80 an hour, then add the cost of a admin staff, driver etc etcAlaric Adairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05574881443377654048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488114684124200470.post-74515743959298453892011-11-22T16:01:37.798+00:002011-11-22T16:01:37.798+00:00Just to be clear - you think that for £56 per year...Just to be clear - you think that for £56 per year (that's less than £5 per month) a patient should be entitled to be seen as many times as they like at a surgery which is open every day of the year from 07:00 - 22:00. Most people pay 3 or 4 times that per month for a broadband subscription.<br /><br />The idea is ludicrous. The number of doctors required to staff such a practice would mean that they'd be paid less than minimum wage.<br /><br />I only know of the situation in Nottingham but there was a public consultation. 1500 people got involved. The most favoured option was to incorporate the WIC funding into primary care streaming in A+E.<br /><br />There are reams of documents available here<br />http://www.nnotts.nhs.uk/content/showcontent.aspx?contentid=16701<br /><br />These are the costs per contact according to their research:<br />WIC £40 (in hours and weekends)<br />Primary care stream at ED £21-31 (in hours and weekends)<br />GP out of hours service £32-55 (in hours and out-of-hours)<br /><br />There is no data for cost per contact at the patient's usual GP but it will be significantly lower than £20.Dr Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16904401638504406348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488114684124200470.post-53536175028908264152011-11-22T15:37:47.515+00:002011-11-22T15:37:47.515+00:00I like a good debate too, indeed this is something...I like a good debate too, indeed this is something sadly lacking in the closures of WICs. I'm happy with the concept of GPs being paid no more than £56 per patient per year, provided they are accessible 365 days a year between the hours 0700 - 2200 and to also cover the cost of building rental, utilities, security, practice nurses, practice management and administration. <br />Of course in my case it would mean the NHS has paid my GP £466 per consultation on my behalf excluding the additional ones caused by GP practice errors.<br />The cost differential between GP, WIC and A&E was in a printed journal a couple of years ago. I've retained the figures but not the paper. No doubt the Dept of Health has it available and calculated on a like for like basis.Alaric Adairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05574881443377654048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488114684124200470.post-63026020149292452002011-11-22T13:36:34.135+00:002011-11-22T13:36:34.135+00:00Now I like a good debate but if you're referri...Now I like a good debate but if you're referring to me as uninformed then you're making yourself look more than a little foolish.<br /><br />The problem with WICs is that they fulfill a want and not a need. People want their routine healthcare immediately and as conveniently as possible. They expect the supermarket open all hours service when in fact healthcare should be likened to a solicitor or accountant. I don't hear people complaining about having to take time off work because their solicitor doesn't open after 6pm or because their accountant won't see them on a Sunday.<br /><br />If you have an urgent medical problem there are facilities to care for you. If you have something non-urgent there are facilities for this as well. The only advantage of a WIC is that it provides these things almost immediately and on demand. This is expensive - both by comparison to A+E or GP and also because of the duplication in services and lower skillset of the staff employed.<br /><br />So I am not at all surprised that people enjoy the service provided by WICs with their short waiting times and long consultation times.<br /><br />The problem is that, as professionals, our job is to provide the best possible service with the resources we are given. Very simply, WICs do not provide value for money to the NHS. If you are able to point me towards some evidence to the contrary I'd be glad to read it.<br /><br />Best wishesDr Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16904401638504406348noreply@blogger.com